“We are all actors”

When I started to research Dora Garcia’s work for our conversation, I came across a large body of online projects on her website, including an e-mail based project, and an idea started to form in the back of my mind: Why not try something different than the usual Q&A-interview? Why not connect our chat to her practice itself? So, over the course of two weeks, I emailed with Dora about blurring the line between fiction and reality, the Romeos, and the mysterious world of spies. After a while feeling like a keeper of secrets myself.

Dora Garcia is a contemporary visual artist, born and raised in Spain. She studied Fine Arts at the University of Salamanca and the Rijksakademie in Amsterdam. Her work has been exhibited all over the world and she represented Spain at the 54th Biennale in Venice. In her projects, she is interested in the interaction with the holy trinity of the art world: the piece, the audience, and the space.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 at 23:41, Natalie wrote:

Hi Dora,

I hope this email finds you well! After doing research for our chat, I was wondering if you would be open to do it a little differently? I was thinking we could try an email interview where I start off with a question and then we go from there.

Let me know if you would be interested.

Natalie

… … …

From: dora garcia
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2020 11:09AM
To: Natalie
Subject: Re: Contact for interview - regarding We never sleep

An email interview is a very good format for me. We can start anytime you want!

Looking forward
Dora

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On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 16:33, Natalie wrote:

That’s great, let’ start then!

What got you interested into art in the first place? Did you always wanted to be an artist?

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From: dora garcia
Sent: Wed, Sept 2, 2020 6:35 AM
To: Natalie
Subject: Re: First Question(s)

Well there is a question I did not expect! No, I did not want to be an artist in the first place, but I was always interested in the arts, cinema, literature, even more than visual arts. I decided to go to art school as a way of non-conforming. That got the ball rolling and here I am, without really ever having made the decision to be an artist; my only real decision was to find an occupation where I could use my time as I wanted. I also (often) think that I am not an artist, but just someone who poses as one.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 05:33, Natalie wrote:

Oh really? That’s interesting! Do you think your fascination of blurring the line between fiction and reality that is often present in your work taps into that?

… … …

From: dora garcia 
Sent: Thurs, Sept 3, 2020 9:49 AM
To: Natalie
Subject: Re: First Question(s)

I think the line between fiction and reality is always blurred. I say that I am not an artist, but just someone who poses as one, because that is how I feel. I think all artists feel a bit that way. I remember the famous quote of Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin: “A magician is an actor playing the part of a magician.” So, I think we are all actors, and I am playing the part of the artist. This is also the idea behind a book that greatly influenced me: “The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life” by Erving Goffman. Where it basically says that when you study to become a doctor you not so much study medicine as, rather, the way a doctor is supposed to talk, move, and behave. We are working daily on our characters, to make them believable; and the catastrophe is when we somehow do not succeed in constructing this narrative. Children understand this very well, and Freud did, too. This does not mean that things aren’t true or that reality does not exist; it means that to bear the truth, to tolerate reality, we need to construct a narrative that makes it bearable. I hope I did not stray too far from the question :)

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On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 17:27, Natalie wrote:

Not at all, Dora, I really enjoyed your answer. It got me thinking and that is what art should be about, right?! You mentioned Goffman and Freud as influences, is there anybody else who inspires you?

… … …

From: dora garcia
Sent: Mon, Sept 7, 2020 12:55 PM
To: Natalie
Subject: Re: Inspirations?

Many people and many things inspire me, the list would be to long to reproduce here. In the case of the work I will be presenting at the Schirn, “The Romeos”, the main sources are German... since the work was thought of when I was working on a grant in Leipzig (2006-2007), researching the structure and modus operandi of the Stasi and the foreign intelligence division of East Germany’s Ministry for State Security. I was fascinated by the testimonies of many “inoffizielle Mitarbeiter” [unofficial workers] who did not see any contradiction or problem in being married or in love with someone and informing the Stasi about that person. They could perfectly live double lives, be part of the opposition movement and of the repressive apparatus at the same time. For this work on cold war spies, I was very influenced by the literary work of Wolfgang Hilbig, Uwe Johnson, and certainly Heinrich Böll; by texts like “Man Without a Face: The Memoirs of a Spymaster” (Jonathan Cape, 1997) and films like “One, Two, Three” by Billy Wilder. Each project I do takes a lot of research and therefore a lot of influences–these are the influences of “The Romeos”.

On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 03:21, Natalie wrote:

I see! The world of spies and the Stasi is fascinating, I was wondering what got you interested in the Romeos, I had never heard about them before. Thanks for sharing your inspirations on this one! So, maybe we can chat a bit about these male spies the Stasi used to seduce female employees of West German politicians in order to gain information. There was one thing in particular that stumped me when I read up on the project: part of the performance is that you tell visitors/the audience right from the start about the existence of the Romeos, you sometimes even use visuals, like posters. Don’t people recognize them right away and wouldn’t that spoil the secret part of the spy game?

… … …

From: dora garcia
Sent: Thurs, Sept 10, 2020 4:30 AM
To: Natalie
Subject: Re: Spy Games & Romeos

Indeed, the performance “The Romeos” has always (not sometimes, but always) two parts: the performance itself and the printed matter. The printed matter are posters, sometimes postcards, as well. The function of this printed matter is to make the performance more “something you know about” rather than “something you see”. You see the poster (or the postcard) and you “know” that this is going on. The moment you know this, every young man you see anywhere (as it says in the poster) is a potential Romeo. And therefore, the reality that was normal to you before reading the poster, becomes “suspicious” now that you have read it.

You know something is going on; others do not know that. Every time you see a young man being nice to somebody, maybe even to you, you think “ah, he does not really like that person, he does not really like me, it’s his job to be nice. What shall I do? Accept this nice company or refuse it?” And the point is that you are asking yourself those questions whether the young man at that moment is a real performer or not. Because nothing says that the Romeos are ONLY the ones on the poster. Apart from that, portrait photographs (as “The Romeos” poster) are open to a lot of interpretation, and many young men look like many other young men. Maybe they are wearing glasses now, they changed their hairstyle, or they grew a beard. They may not look like they do in the poster anymore.

So, apart from my interest in the historical cold war phenomenon of the original Romeos, and apart from my interest in what we accept as “true affection” is the fact that someone is paid to show affection as part of their job (a nurse, a doctor, a kindergarten teacher, a psychologist, a sexual worker) necessarily mean that this affection is fake? No! Apart from those two things, I am also very interested in the idea of a performance as something that the audience KNOWS rather than SEES. And this knowing completely modifies the audience’s perception of reality.

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On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 14:27, Natalie wrote:

Thanks for this in-depth answer, Dora! 

Interesting, “knowing” as more powerful than “seeing”. That way, the audience can participate in the performance even if they never meet a Romeo in the space, because there is a possibility of meeting one everywhere. It will change how people interact with young, attractive males in the museum, second guessing and suspecting alternative motives. Like you said it will totally change perception of reality. In a way, our interview can be part of the KNOWING, maybe even amplify it, that is exciting!

You’ve been interested in this interaction between the art space, the audience, and your work for a long time, I was wondering if you think the current global pandemic will influence how you work in the future?

… … …

From: dora garcia
Sent: Thurs, Sept 10, 2020 4:30 AM
To: Natalie
Subject: Re: Spy Games & Romeos

Yes, enormously. First of all, there is the psychological impact we will all suffer, some more than others, but all: the sorrow for the dead, the awareness we cannot control neither our lives nor our future, the feeling there is a danger outside, in the others, the feeling we can be a danger to those we love, the anger for the mismanagement of the pandemic, the blame we place in neoliberalism for dismantling public health care, the only thing that can protect us. Also, some positive things, like the belief we will only get out of this together, the revival of the public, the common, the care to each other, the community, the domestic, everyday activism.

Then in the realm of my job, the awareness that this neoliberalism shaped the way we consume art, the way we exhibit art, the way artists work (with an absolute overuse of air travel and impossible schedules). And the feeling of urgency that we must get out of it and get out fast, the wish to work in a slower, community-based manner, taking care of other artists, of those who work with us, being less career-oriented and more life-oriented, taking care of audiences, allowing them to enjoy, instead of consuming art. This is a big, big change, for the good. I would say that money will play a less relevant role in creativity, but in my case, it never played any role. I have always been relatively poor, and yet, privileged compared to the majority, I am very much aware of that, of my privilege.

A long answer! Sorry about that.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 01:29, Natalie wrote:

I agree! It will be interesting to see if the financial aspect of the art market will lose its importance over the next couple years. You’ve been creating art on the web at doragarcia.org since the late 90s/early 2000s–in that realm anybody can consume your work from anywhere in the world. How did you get interested in that and also, do you think the internet could be the art space of the (post-COVID 19) future?

… … …

From: dora 
Sent: Wed, Sept 16, 2020 8:55 AM
To: Natalie  
Subject: Re: The internet as the future art space?

When I started, in 1999, using the internet as a medium to structure and distribute my performance work, it was with a clear aim: to circumvent the art institution, to distribute my work to a large public without having to go through the usual maze of art galleries and museums; without even having to label my work as art. Things have changed a lot since then. The internet has lost any semblance of counterculture, it is big business. The internet was already the public and semi-public space par excellence before COVID came. Life happens on the internet. I spend 60% of my time on the internet. I have to make a conscious effort to get out of it. I have to make an effort to read, to write, to talk, to keep the analogical part of my life. And the funny thing is, the internet is a big representation–the realm of the real is outside: disease, love, death, politics. We need to free ourselves from the web, before and after COVID.

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On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 04:00, Natalie wrote:

Great last words, Dora, thanks so much for talking to me!